Tracy Dix
You're listening to the Wyrd Learning podcast with your hosts, Dr. Tracy Dix and Dr. Alex Patel. Today's episode is "Adapting from a levels to academic life and university. Production team, Kia Morant and Patricia Mari Solis.
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Wyrd Learning podcast. We're really excited today to welcome two special guests that we brought to a level students on our episode today, Harri and Emily, would you like to introduce yourselves? Hi, I'm Emily, I study religious studies maths and chemistry at a level. And I want to go into philosophy as an undergraduate. Hi, I'm Harri. I'm studying geography and arts as well. I'm looking at studying anthropology, undergraduate. Great, so we're very glad to have you with us.
So thank you very much for coming on our show today. And today's episode is all about a level assignments and the differences between how you study at a level and how you pass your assignments, versus what learning is like at university, what the assignments are like, and what the expectations are like, so that we can help people looking to go into universities to kind of bridge that gap in their knowledge and experience.
Alexandra Patel
I'd like you to reach pick one of your courses that you're doing at the moment and just imagine or, you know, go back your memory and relive what it's like to study. It's so could you tell us a little bit about what kinds of lessons you have, what kind of learning environments if you do group work and things like that.
Emily
So I do two STEM subjects maths and chemistry. And they're very different to my Rs lessons in my maths and chemistry, it's very much just learning facts on the board with the teacher pretty much how it is at GCSE and then doing like practice questions and things like that. Basically, the only difference between like maths and chemistry at GCSE compared to a level is that the size of the classes, and obviously the content, but learning it is, is relatively the same, whereas with RS is much more group like it's just a discussion, the entire lesson is discussing opinions and what you think about each, like each philosophers, ideas or concepts.
Alexandra Patel
Okay, great. So what's the group size like?
Emily
So in chemistry, and Rs, it's about six, seven people, whereas maths is obviously quite a big class. So I think it's about 23, maybe something like that, but so it is smaller than GCSE. And I like that a lot more. It's much nicer to have a smaller class and it feels like all of you actually care a lot more. And the teacher, it just works really well with the teacher because you get a lot more attention. So I really like that.
Alexandra Patel
Yeah, and I guess you more accountable on to know what you're on about, you have to be able to answer questions
how about yourself, Harri.
Harri
So in art, a lot of it is sort of just being given what you need to do. As long as you're on the right track, you've sort of left here in places to get it done, and be responsible for having it completed on time. If you need help, you can obviously go to our teachers and they can peer over your shoulder to make sure you're not screwing up anything major that is sort of left on our own. Whereas with geography, it's quite a lot of just making sure we've got all the notes and other case studies. So it is a lot of listening to our teachers and then turning that into answers and things. And that's usually what most specimens that like. And obviously, because we are going to do like a big study, like our NDA, we'll have to do our own research and go out and we'll be in the computers, computer rooms a lot.
Alexandra Patel
And you're out into the real world as well.
Harri
Yeah. Yeah, and how to turn our notes into agile essays and work that makes sense.
Alexandra Patel
So then what the class sizes like?
Harri
only has about six, and then geographies is still quite small. It's just 16 of us. It's small enough to ask for help.
Alexandra Patel
Sounds like you have to manage your kind of studies, but like your timings and your deadlines, yeah, things like that.
Harri
You say a bit more about that.
When the deadlines are slightly, they're always a bit earlier, then, like exams. So you sort of have the very final ones will be quite close. But you'll probably be done with your art exam that halfway through during your other ones, I think so you've got to actually make sure that you're still studying for the rest of them. And you're not putting too much effort in one like you can't be like, Oh, I've got a test coming up next week. I'm not going to do any art, you're going to make sure that you're being equal with them. So don't fall behind on anything that's quite a bit hard but important. Yeah.
Alexandra Patel
Sounds like really useful skills can then translate nicely with the university to be honest.
Tracy Dix
Yeah, because Emily, you've talked to her about practice questions and preparing for exams, and that's something that we often recommend as well at university, isn't it? So for my modules where you have quite exams, you know, students often ask like, how do we prepare for these? And you know, our answer is it's most effective to study by using practice questions because you have to practice or formulating your answers to me, you mentioned about formulating answers. Whereas I think a lot of students expect to learn everything, memorize it, and then somehow magically be able to apply that knowledge in an exam setting when you're under a time limit. So you've added pressure. And you've never thought about things a certain way before, and you're kind of piling on those expectations on yourself. So that's quite a lot to deal with at once.
Alexandra Patel
So shall we make a comparison to what studying is like at university. So quite often, people talk about a couple of different metaphors. The first one is like, you know, studying at school and college and a level, it's a bit like learning to swim in a swimming pool. Whereas going to university is a bit like taking what you know, and using it to do while swimming in the sea. And actually, that's something that I do quite often I look while swimming. So it means that there's a lot of stuff that you do already, in terms of your time management, you preparing for exams, group discussions, things like that, that you can still adapt to university. So it's not completely unfamiliar. But you're now doing it in a, I guess, a bigger setting with more freedom. So you have to manage your own time, a lot more. You are independent studies now. And you can also decide what direction to take, you're reading a bit more, which hopefully means you enjoy it more. Because instead of saying, Oh, no, do I really have to learn all about photosynthesis? In this much detail? You can think, Oh, well, actually, I want to know about the gendered research around photosynthesis, which female
Tracy Dix
is that gendered research.
Alexandra Patel
But yeah, you might be looking into the work of female researchers on photosynthesis. And what happened to them historically. The other metaphor is thinking of university a bit like a gym. So you pay your 9000 subscription packs and variant years, and this gives you access to everything you need. But it's up to you how you choose to use it, and how much effort you put in. So it gives you access to experts. So these you'd like your personal trainers, I guess, your lecturers, your personal tutors, who you can interact with, you can obviously hear them in lectures, but you can talk to them outside lectures, you can contact them, you obviously have your classes. So instead of it being spin classes, or aqua aerobics, it's your lectures and your seminars, so you're expected to go to all the votes pretty much, you know, you decide how much you interact within those sessions. So quite often in lectures, you know, you'll be spoken out, so there's not so much room for discussion. So you might need to have strategies to kind of make the most of that and keep yourself awake. And you have access to all the resources of the gym, or in this case, the university. So it might be the libraries and access to articles online, you know, all sorts of equipments that are appropriate for your subject area. So it might be practical classes or practical labs, but very much like a gym. It's about how much efforts you choose to put in, you know, are you going there quite often? Or are you actually just going to the lectures and that's it and expecting the same results, because obviously, it's going to be different. And as I've said before, you also get to choose which bits you concentrate on, you can decide which areas that you want to kind of do the further reading in which you're going to pursue.
Tracy Dix
Do you have anything resembling lectures at the moment?
Emily
that's what I'm most worried about I think Harri. With Rs, especially, we all sit around a table, we've put all the tables in the middle of the room, and we have like a nice discussion about whether we like this philosopher or his ideas, whereas lectures seem very intimidating. You're just looking at this one person who's speaking at you for like, an hour or however long. So I guess it's not really comparable. I don't know. How do you feel?
Harri
Yeah, I think one thing that you said in one of your podcasts was that about trusting your notes. And I always think that when I'm being told that by a teacher, and I'm like trying to get something down, I definitely worry about how will I know if what I need in God is worth anything more like I don't want to waste my time trying to like make sure I've got something when actually it's not relevant, or like I've misunderstood it, you know, we don't have
Emily
a level, you get told, like,
you need to know this, you don't need to know this. So when we're in a lesson, she'd be like, okay, you don't need to write anything on this slide. And then she goes to the next slide, and you're like, Okay, we'll just write this little paragraph here, right at uni. You do whatever you need. Like,
Alexandra Patel
some lecturers do kind of do that, especially in the first year to kind of say, you know, this is the type of stuff I expect you to know. And this is where I'm just waffling about this, because I'm really interested in it. But really, as you're getting into your second and third year, you should be you know, pursuing your own interests. And it's up to you, because there is no limits to what you can look into.
Tracy Dix
lectures have changed a bit since we were students when I was an undergraduate lectures were not recorded, and there was no opportunity to go back to it. So you You sat through the lecture got what you could out of it. And then that was it. And nowadays, in many universities, lectures are recorded. They're made available afterwards. They're indexed and searchable. So they're really easy to go back to afterwards if you want to. Having said that, though, it's not something I necessarily encouraged. Because I've also seen a lot of students who go, I'm really overwhelmed. Because I go to a lecture, I don't understand what's going on. And then I go through the recording, and I still don't understand it takes me like four hours to go to that lecture. And if you're thinking about back in the day, when Alex and I were students, we wouldn't even have had those opportunities. So I think then it'd be more a case of being at your assignments, perhaps, and thinking about, well, what sort of research do I need to look for in order to help me tackle this assignment, the lecture would be long gone and forgotten, if I'm honest,
Alexandra Patel
the danger nowadays is that people will go back to the recording, and then annotate every note, like transcribe the entire thing. And that's not really learning, whereas you want to be actively engaging with knowledge,
Tracy Dix
it goes back to what you were saying about regurgitating things. And that's not really what you want to do at university. And I think, you know, the students who do this and get overwhelmed by lecturers and their recordings have that sort of perfectionist attitude that I was talking about with you guys on your podcast, where they just think that in order to be working optimally as a student, or in order to do the best they can, they have to like memorize everything on know everything that's in your lecture notes. And you don't have to, and the thing I would say is, a lecture often gives you an introduction to a topic, and sometimes depending on the lectures interests, so like Alex was saying earlier on, someone might decide to talk about a certain area just because they're interested in it, if you had a different lecture lecturer, they would give you a different take on the same subject. So what your lecture delivers to you is not everything there is to know about that subject. And therefore, you don't need to learn all of that.
Alexandra Patel
So in terms of how to approach lectures, what I would advise is a bit of preparation, not huge amount, work out what the main areas are going to be. So you building on Mr. framework of what you're expecting to learn from that lecture. And that might be by looking at the aims and objectives of the lecture before you go in, or the intended learning outcomes is what I often call them. And so at the end of the session, if you've not picked up on the last point, you know, there's perhaps a gap there, and you should go away and read, check the lecture notes again. Secondly, when you're in the lecture, frame, and sound, but spend all your time writing it down, because you can, you can go back to the recording, try and engage with the information, make notes about what interests you, once you have questions on but don't try and capture everything, because it's already out there as the recording, that's probably a transcript. There'll be textbooks and research articles that already cover this stuff. But just try and I guess, be in the moment and get that motivation going if you can, and then afterwards, you want to consolidate your knowledge around the lecture. So follow up on the you know, answer any questions that you have by looking into little bits of research. And that way, you're kind of repeating that knowledge, you're going back to it three times. So you've got the framework at the beginning, you've seen the lecture, and then you're refreshing it again in your notes. And then when you come to do revision, you might then be thinking about, well, how do I use this to answer Exam questions, and so you're reviewing it again, a fourth time. And hopefully, it's got in there at that point. Hopefully, you've learned
Tracy Dix
a tip I have for making the most of lectures as well, my list is quite obvious. But I would say sit close to the front, or at least, you know, sort of at eye level so you can see properly, you can hear the lecture properly. But also that's that accountability, because they can see you don't sit right at the back. Because actually, you're more obvious than you think your lecturer because they look up, they're speaking to a room, they will see the students at the back anyway. So there's no escaping them. But more than that, it just helps you to pay attention, if everything is clear in the lecture. So you know, the little details count as well.
Alexandra Patel
Yeah, so lecture sizes can range from 30 to 600, depending on which subjects area. So I think business courses quite often have a large cohort. And law actually is starting to get bigger numbers.
Tracy Dix
What you described earlier on with the class sizes do sound quite similar to seminars and tutorials, you know, you're talking about a group size that's more intimate, where you feel like you're able to ask questions, and that's the accountability and it feels a bit more informal, and then some other classes, a little bit more like seminars, obviously, you don't have anything as big as a lecture. So I feel like maybe without realizing you have got the experience of attending something similar to seminars and tutorials already.
Alexandra Patel
Yep, I guess one of the differences you may be expected to prepare for classes, quite a lot of college, put in seminars and tutorials, you'll usually begin something that you really shouldn't you love to read and say, you know, just make sure you do that reading or whatever preparation is required, because you'll be expected to contribute to the discussion. And it's such an awful session, if it's just the teacher leading the session asks a question, that's a question on the table. And everyone just sits there and don't make eye contact. So I've not done any of the background reading.
Tracy Dix
Then sometimes the discussion might be structured in different ways. So when I was a student, we used to have kind of informal group presentations. So we were assigned a different passage to read each in, in the groups, and then you were encouraged to meet beforehand and talk about it. So you had a little mini presentation, and then a discussion. So it was even more scaffolded than that just to kind of structure the seminar a little bit better, and make sure that people have things to say.
Alexandra Patel
And there might be various versions of group based learning. So there's things like problem based learning and team based learning. And it's essentially group work. So sometimes you given a problem and maybe some clues as to what to read, and center to kind of research it yourself and then come back and present it in some way. So maybe it's the reports, or write it up as a puzzle, or present it as opposed to, but you'll always be given some kind of support as to what's expected in terms of any new assignment types. Any questions about Seminole
Emily
I think she's going into third year right now? So she's prepared me,
I definitely feel like I've learned a lot. But yeah, when you go, you don't know what to ask, like just ask what if one went to an open day, and I asked someone what the workload was like for their course. And they said, they're like, oh, yeah, it's not too bad. Obviously, it's a lot of hard work, you know, it is. And then I was talking about their RAID levels, and they're like, oh, yeah, took for Ireland. And I was like, Oh, okay. So your level of like, being able to cope with work probably isn't the same as my me being able to, like, not drown. And too much. Sometimes I feel like you don't actually get an accurate representation.
Alexandra Patel
Yeah, but it might surprise you to know that actually, the number of hours for each module is specified. At normal students actually, though, this, which is a surprise. So a module will have a certain number of credits. So it might be 30 credits, The next module is 30 credits. And these add up to I think it's 180 credits per year, or something along those lines, maybe 120, I can never remember the numbers. But each credit is equivalent to 10 hours. So 30 credit module is worth 300 hours of study. And so that's split into things like lectures, seminars, practicals, reading, and this big chunk, which is independent study. And that is your own time to kind of spend on assignments, and background reading and preparing for exams. So it gives you a ballpark of you know, how much work you're expected to be doing. So it's kind of nine to five type job, really, you know, those types of hours per week?
Emily
It's not, yeah, I didn't know I didn't know.
Alexandra Patel
So it's a 15 credits, you put less effort in, but if it's a 30 credits,
Tracy Dix
and if you're on a module that happens to have, you know, low contact hours, it's probably because you're meant to do more independent study. So as an English student, I used to have 10 hours of lectures a week, which was very little compared to engineering students. And it was because I was in my bedroom all the time readingthat various books. What were your contact contact hours? Like Alex?
Alexandra Patel
Very long, actually, I think it used to be about 26 hours a week. So yeah,
Tracy Dix
it can be quite a contrast, depending on what course you pick. So with philosophy, you probably have fewer contact hours in terms of lectures and seminars. Yeah, because there'll be lots of reading and things like that. Yeah. But you probably find also that your seminars are quite structured to what you're already used to. Because you're saying about, was it our Rs? Yeah. And talking about different philosophers point of view, that's going to be quite similar, I think, to some of the sessions you'll be doing at university. That sounds good.
Alexandra Patel
So could you tell us a bit about the types of assignments you do at the moment? So in terms of, you know, an example question maybe or how long they are, and what the expectations are, in terms of what markers are looking for, what, what are the characteristics of a good assignment?
Emily
It's quite clear with a lot of subjects, what makes it good and what makes it what when you've screwed up? NRS biggest question is a 30. Marker. And I usually write about four pages, like so it's not Yeah, but in handwriting, and you have like a one layer two, and you've got to make sure that you've got versus like facts and evaluation. So you know, what you need. And, you know, it's easy to revise the the facts, you know, we've been doing that since forever, but it's being able to evaluate that that's, that's what I enjoy about humanities as well, because you've got to be able to be Look at it and make a judgement yourself and having you can actually have an opinion. Okay,
Alexandra Patel
so you're not doing coursework? It's all exam based. Is it?
Emily
NRS exam? Yeah,
we have three, three, yeah, three papers for Rs are, they're all two hours. And that's that. So that'll work for a third of our grade each. But in art, it's different, isn't it?
Harri
Yeah. So now we have more we have. So we're gonna write essays. So we, we get to pick a theme at the beginning. And then you do quite a bit of work on that. So you've got essays, you write about different artists, and you have to produce work inspired by or copies of different artists. And then for the actual exam, they'll like, give you a theme, and you've got to create like a piece of art for it and like, obviously prepare for that, then you get like a quite a long, like, I think it goes over several days, yes, you're like things 15 hours to produce the work. So it's like quite different from my other subjects. So the rest of the monster and an example. And that one, I'll just be staring at a piece of paper for a really bad so
Alexandra Patel
but University, a typical split is 30% of the modules marks will be for an essay, and it might be 1500 words, might be up to like 3000
Tracy Dix
it depends on the credit waiting for a module.
Alexandra Patel
So one of the things that you will discover about university is that there are very strict rules about formatting, and presentation. And I think it it has evolved from training people up to be able to publish, because if you publish a journal, they will give you you know, this type of fonts, this type of heading, it must be underlined like this, you must use these headings. Don't use any italic or underline things in bold. And they're very, very specific. So I think that's filtered through to how students are expected to submit work. So you know, you'll be told font size, sometimes you told margin sizes. And that would be sometimes a hangover from when work would have been bound into like a manuscript or something along those lines. It can be a bit of a surprise. Yeah.
Tracy Dix
But just to reassure you, though, the margins are likely to be the default setting. And so you might have to worry about double spacing, but in most cases, you'll get used to it. And once you've done formatting for one essay, it's very likely that subsequent ones to oversee Yeah, yeah. So it's a little investment at the start to get it right. And then you don't have to worry about it too much. Yeah.
Emily
I worry about technology. So bad, and I just quite like having a piece of paper and just being able to write,
Tracy Dix
but at least you can correct your mistakes easily. Because you're going to have to do editing as well. So yeah, if you do this on a piece of paper be a lot more work than editing a typewritten piece of work.
Alexandra Patel
So that's 30% of a module mark. The other 70% is usually an exam. So that's at the end of the module, or at the end of the year, quite heavy weighting. But I guess you're coming from it being 100% exam. So actually having a 30% essay mark in the back already is quite nice in some ways.
Tracy Dix
On the course that I did at uni, it was different. I, in my holding English degree, I was assessed by essays only. And I had one exam for linguistics, which anecdotally I got 52% for my mom was very disappointed, because she said you had one exam to worry about because you know, I've done better and, and my take was, well, I'm not good at exams. And that's why I chose a course that doesn't have them. So just tangentially that might be one thing you might want to think about as well as how are you going to be assessed.
Alexandra Patel
So expectations at university will be quite clear, it will be set out in a rubric or a marking criteria. So it's really important to get hold of one of these and kind of work through it and understand what it means. The marking criteria is what you need to perform for each grade boundary for a first class mark, you need to demonstrate independent reading
Tracy Dix
and evaluation of resources. Yeah, excellent standard of criticality,
Alexandra Patel
coming up with ideas, no errors, good understanding of the subject area. Rubrics, on the other hand, take that type of information, but break it down into more detail. So it might say so looking at the certain assignments, you will have an introduction methods results in a discussion. In the introduction, we expect to see this and these types of marks you'll get for it 10% For this and whatever. And the same for the other sections. Or it might be split down into things like the learning objectives. So we want students to be understanding the information if they totally understand it, they get you know, 10% for this if they demonstrate good critical analysis and evaluation, they get you know, 25% for this, that type of thing and so breaks down the mark in different ways. So it's really important to have a look at those. So you can use it to assess other exam proofs of work. So you can, you know, look at it and play around with maybe something that's been published and say, you know, how do I think this measures up to it? Or how does my work measure up to it. Because that means you then have a good understanding of how you're going to perform when it is actually marked. It'll help you spot things which you need to correct. And so ideally, you correct those, and you submit it, but you have a good idea of, you know, well, what Mark you're gonna get. So I really think I've hit everything here. So I'm expecting a high mark, or actually, I only had two houses on this after I crawled out of bed. Because I was focusing on something else. So I know, I'm not going to do that well, but it helps you kind of manage that impact of getting your marks back a little bit?
Emily
And do you get given those types of things, because at any level, in our classes, our teachers will literally just give us a mark scheme, basically, and an example. answer to a question, and we'll go through what was good about it, and what was bad about it, and then we'll like rewrite the answer better, because we have like, one of these bullet points about things you need to include. But we get given that directly. So is it the same at uni? Or do you have to go searching for and
Alexandra Patel
you'll probably have to search for it. So at university, they use the, you know, the digital learning environments and things like that. So it should be available within your module area. And if not, you know, ask because they should be offering these types of things, because it's such an important learning tool.
Tracy Dix
He's also get feedback on your submitted assignments. So that's something that is really useful to review and apply to subsequent ones. However, I have noticed that on some modules that having to give general feedback for the whole course, like the whole cohort, which I think can be a little bit trickier, because you know, if you're quite new to university, it can be difficult to know whether what's being said about the assignments in general apply to yours. The support departments who can help you with your academic writing, there are people like that, who are experienced with it and can help you with that university.
Alexandra Patel
Yep. So might be useful to say something a bit about marking expectations. So in that previous podcast, we were talking about, you know, grade boundaries, it's a bit like they shift. So tell me a bit about how things are marked, what kind of range of marks you get, at a level? What's a, what's a satisfactory Mark, if you kind of just saw that,
Emily
where we're at now, you'd probably want to be like, well, maybe yeah, just where we're at now, you could be like a grade, lower than what you want to get. So if you wanted A,, and you're getting B's, you'd probably be happy at the progress you're making. Because
Harri
at the end of year, 12, you I think you make the most progress in year 13. So if you're, if you're a B, then you're not just gonna get an eight, you're probably getting a star because I mean, I don't know for sure, but I feel like you make a lot more progress in your 30s you're doing you're 12
Alexandra Patel
Sure you do. You know, when you've got that deadline looming.
Emily
I feel like I'm not that optimistic. When I say, we do get quite a lot of March work. So we know what, especially in our RSP get, she just will do everything in class, and then we'll get given a question on it. And then the next time we're back in, we'll handle no more now what we've done wrong, and we can improve on and then we can work on it. So we get quite a lot of constant feedback to see where we're at. And if we're improving, and what we need to work on. I think there's different in different subjects. Because sometimes subjects are easier to mark, like, I think, with art is so subjective, that at the end of the day, and also, if it like it depends on what everyone does. So when they come in, and they circled from the next year, it's all even moderate. When they moderate it, you know, your grades could just change quite differently to what the teacher thinks you're going to get. And we saw a lot of that with the EQs that the teachers predicted one thing, and they got quite different, which is I think, usually they are quite accurate predicting it. So I think some years you just don't really
Alexandra Patel
know. Yeah, there's been a change of how is assessed
Emily
the grade boundaries. I think sometimes they will they always let all find out. I'll come back to you.
Alexandra Patel
Okay, so I want to ask about percentages. So do you get marked out of 100 on everything? No, that doesn't happen anymore?
Tracy Dix
I don't. So is it just ABC?
Alexandra Patel
I'm just thinking if you did a maths tests are an example. What would be like an A or an A star?
Emily
I think, like 65% or something. But the thing is, I think what I find difficult is they have like generic grade boundaries that they'll put on the board after we get our tests back and they'll put grade boundaries on the board. And I'm like, but that is not specifically for this test, obviously. So it's for the actual a level it was like the last year's a level diamonds or whatever. So then it doesn't really apply because As the assessments you're doing in year 12, they're nothing like the ones you're doing at the end of year 13, your actual 11 was because more even don't have the half the top half the topics, but also, they're just formatted in a different way.
Alexandra Patel
Okay.
Emily
In maths,
Harri
just give us the closest to what they think the accurate and then that's what they Yeah sounds like based on their like years though teaching and yeah, I think that usually that's what I saw. But I think in RS with essays it's a bit different I think they have There's levels from a monkey, there's obvious things that if you didn't include something you wouldn't get hired. And that's nice. If you didn't include a conclusion, you would might get capped at a certain Yeah, great. So then you wouldn't be able to progress. And then obviously, that's yeah, so
Emily
they put you I think you say you'd get as four levels or something like that. And you get put right in the middle of the level. And then they say, Are you a good level four by level four? Or are you? Yeah, something like that. So then that's how you get your actual mark. Okay.
Alexandra Patel
So I was wrong then. So, in my day, it used to be, you know, things were generally marked out of 100. And so good students would be getting in the top end of that, like 80% 90%. And so when those students went to university, it felt like a bit of a shift.
Tracy Dix
I just got grades at intervals. So I got two C's and a D. And I think that was based on a certain percentage range. So like a C might have been like 50 to 60%. Say, but then they didn't give you the exact percentage. You just gave you the grade? Yeah,
Alexandra Patel
yeah. But the point that I want to make is that at college, it feels like you could potentially or it used to feel to me that you could potentially get up to 100%. If you've got everything correct?
Emily
Yeah, you can definitely we've seen 30 markers in RS, like, an example 30 marker where they got 30 out of 30.
Harri
Yeah, we like seeing we always say to our teachers, they were just a bit difficult. I think we're like the did they get that one in the whole of their paper? We like we want to know whether that's just like, they've done really well on this question. If they screwed up, like, because they spent their entire question. And he's like, I want to see that whole paper like they do. Well, across the board, or anything. I was like, suspicious. But yeah, I think when we the actual A levels, when you get tested, yeah, it's like the percentage, you'll get, like a certain amount, obviously get higher. But when we do it in school, I think they just, if we do like an end of time, they'll look at the year before and what they got, and then put us into those grades. I think that's
Alexandra Patel
okay, so at university, you get marked out of 100. In some ways. However, it's impossible to get 100%. It's not applied in the same way, if you're doing a quiz or you know, a math test, it's probably different. But when you see marking criteria, it'll have anything less than 40% is a fail. And a thing between 40 and 50% is a third. Which is more like getting rice.
Tracy Dix
No, that is because 51 to 60 is a two two second lower class.
And then 60 to 70 is a two one and anything above 70 is a first. So anything above 70% is considered pretty damn amazing.
Alexandra Patel
But very few people get first, you know, you're talking about a very small fraction. What 1020 30% or? So, only if you. Yeah, so basically the majority of people will get between that 50 to 60
Tracy Dix
60or 70. Yeah.
Alexandra Patel
But then another big chunk will get the 50 to 60, which is the tu tu tu tu tu one. So those are where you usually? Well, it means. Yeah, yeah. So it can be a bit of a shock if you are at all used to scoring 80s or 90s. Because to get an 85 it has to be pretty incredible. It'd be near publishable, wouldn't it? Yeah. You have just seen you have just discovered something.
Emily
Anyway, so by having out of 100, then that is the question. Yeah, the question, I
Tracy Dix
guess, you know, it would seem somehow this satisfactory to just say, you know, 75 or something because it's like a number plucked out of thin air, isn't it? Or is that like zero to 100 is something that we're used to so maybe that's part of the transition? I don't know it is
Alexandra Patel
it is it's changing your understanding of how it works. So if you get 70 and above, that's a really That's brilliant, so you are totally on track.
Emily
That's crazy.
Alexandra Patel
Awesome. 60 To 70 Still pretty good, but room for improvement. So if you get those types of books to put yourself down, because a lot of people get those and freak out and why is it so low? Yeah, I tried everything. That's the best. You got the best in the class, you're brilliant? Well, if it helps think of it in terms of the first two, one. Yeah, yes. Cost mark. That's brilliant.
Tracy Dix
And the thing is, everyone else is going to be the same boat as well. Yeah. So should we break down what, like, generally what those great boundaries might mean as well? So like, for example, with a two to it, it's very unlikely that you produce a decent answer to the question, but perhaps you needed to do a bit more wider reading and definitely editing was probably lacking. So a lack of structure and specificity. So perhaps you might have made too many, like sweeping statements without pinpointing exactly what the evidence is. Because a lot of academic writing is evidence based with a two one, I would say that, you know, the research was pretty good, like pretty relevant sources that you've engaged with. But for the most part, probably, the structuring was the problem again, because that adds a lot to the clarity of your work. And so with, with a first class piece of work, you know, everything has come together. And it also then means that, you know, the level of sophistication in your writing, so your engagement between the resources, the evidence, and your evaluation is very well integrated in your writing. And that is something that takes a lot of practice. So and I come naturally to some people, you know, that are used to writing or if they've drafted and redrafted their work, but chances are, it's not something that will be that natural, you know, you would need a few drops to kind of get to that stage.
Harri
Is that right? Is that actually how it works? It sort of like the grading,
Tracy Dix
times the grades can depend on whether they love your assignment before the lunch, or whether or not
Alexandra Patel
the quality of paper it's submitted on. That's what I call me. Like she's told me, if you if your hands again, hardcopies bring to good quality paper, and it just influences the marker, option.
Tracy Dix
Anything that can get your marker, good impression and put them in a good mood and help them enjoy your assignment.
Emily
Like being able to return it's not a
Alexandra Patel
job, but it is your job now.
Tracy Dix
Mark is a human at the end of the day. Yeah.
Alexandra Patel
Yeah. Yeah,
Tracy Dix
I think that's that's why those guidelines for publishing came about because imagine, as you know, people submit manuscripts with all different types of paper, things that have gotten wet, or coffee spilt on it, or, like a font that you can't read, or, you know, the cartridge wasn't working, and it was like, kind of faded, that would be pretty frustrating with him. So you wouldn't be able to ensure like a fair review of someone submission?
Alexandra Patel
Yeah. Okay. So, during your ailable studies, if you do have any problems, you know, you don't understand something or you don't understand how to approach an assignment or something. What do you do with that?
Emily
You can 100% Go to your teacher, they are so there for you like they really do care it available, at least in in my experience won't be the same at all. Sick forms, but all of my teachers, I'd be really happy to go to if I was struggling with like an essay or a topic in chemistry or maths or whatever. And they would be like, yeah, it's absolutely fine. I'll explain it to you, whenever, whenever they're free, you can email or find them in school, they're completely happy to talk to you about it.
Harri
Sometimes they'll give you way longer answers. Especially when there are a lot of matches quite passionate about, they're so happy they come. They're teaching it for a reason. So if you ask, they'll obviously they want to give you and they also
Emily
they want you if we get set an essay in philosophy, for example, she wants us to understand the topic. So if I don't understand a topic, I can't write an essay on it. So I can go to her. And I'm sure she'll re reteach the whole thing in a quick in a quick manner, but um, ya know, they're really, they care
Harri
a lot. Yeah. And then the only time I've heard they're like, oh, no, it's because you know, sometimes they're just busy. That's the only time when it feels difficult. Yeah, especially. Yeah, some of them because some of the sexual stuff are also like have higher roles in the school. So that's when that's when it goes they're like, oh, yeah, they need to go, you know, off and patrol the corridors for a year and then the students vaping in the toilet. Yeah, but there's also just like, because we know I mean, Asik was pretty small, but we know most people since like, your sensor, there's plenty of group chats and someone's probably lost and there's always that student who's got all the notes. So like, because you know, everyone is quite late. We're all in the study center together, you could literally turn to the table next to you and be like, does anyone know what was happening? He was reading the textbook. Because you're all there. And if you're in the same subjects, you've probably got the same freeze and stuff. So even that helps. So you can just be like, what's the work of the homework?
Alexandra Patel
So you can kind of cultivate that at university as well, you know, get yourself a group of people like minded people and go to the library and do some photos with a group. Yes.
Tracy Dix
And discuss issues have, you know, philosophical debates together?
Alexandra Patel
What do you think you do at university didn't get me a similar experience?
Emily
Yeah, I think I'm sure it's not that bad. But it seems much more intimidating. Because you've, I've known all of my teachers since year seven. And they've, they've told me before, and you have like a more personal connection with them, because there's only like, eight or whatever, in my class. So they just, it just feels like easy to go to them. Whereas electro stands like meters away from you. Or some big topic, it just feels a lot more intimidating to email them or go to their office.
Harri
Yeah, it's definitely just I think it's just, it feels overwhelming thinking about it. And I'm sure that when we get there, yeah, might normally like, be able to find our way through it. But like, it's just the idea of it. And what we have and your effort, you often hear more bad stories than positive ones, and you share a bad story. I know you sort of like when someone tells you about a lecture they had that was just really like unhelpful or something. And they know it's probably just one, but they like just didn't get on and they didn't understand it. Or people I've had people being like, they took a uni course, obviously. And then there's just one module and they just like hated it. And like if they didn't have to do it forever, but they just found it so hard to get through it that it's sort of like, perfect, but on the whole, that's the thing, they go home and tell whereas actually, it's probably not.
Emily
And they probably had a great time at uni. Yeah, of course, they have plenty.
Tracy Dix
We always need to vent about the bad stuff, don't we? There's like a little outlets go to mental health.
Emily
Yeah,
Tracy Dix
so we talked about in talks about, you know, talking to the person at the next table and asking for notes and stuff. And Alex mentioned study groups. But also, you know, amongst the staff at university, there are a lot of sets of support networks available. So you have a personal tutor, you've got your module tutor, you might have a module convener as well on top of that. So if, for whatever reason, you're not getting a response for someone in particular, like, if it's during the holidays, and you might have a module tutor who has hourly pay, for example, they might not get back to you, because they're not paid during that time, you can still approach your module convener, you can definitely approach a personal tutor for help with, like, any postural issues. So if you're just kind of struggling on your course, genuinely, and you just want to talk to someone, then do approach them for help. And then there are lots of other support departments as well. So if you need help with finding resources, you can go to the library, talk to your academic librarian. If you need help with assignments and structuring essays, you can talk to academic skills people. And if you just need, you know, a bit of a mental health check or something, there's usually a well being team on campus. And someone you can see on a kind of more counseling type level. But the Student Union is also a really good resource. So they're lots of clubs and societies, which are kind of part of the Student Union. And, you know, we strongly advise that students join a few clubs and societies not too many, but you know, like, maybe two might be a good number, just so that there's a good balance between activities outside of the curriculum and your course. And you can kind of balance everything. But also, you know, you have that opportunity to form those friendship groups, those support groups, they'll help you through when times get tough. But the student union has advisors who can also help you with curricular based questions as well. So if you're having any problems with your course, it with completing assignments, or anything like that, they can advise you on how to submit an application for mitigating circumstances. So for example, if you're ill, or something happens at home, or if you want to appeal, a great surprise process does vary between universities and usually a lot of rules and regulations around it. And where we work, you can't appeal a grade just because you're unhappy with the mountain you got. So there has to be a good reason for it. But the Students Union will be able to advise you on official matters like that, but also support you with you know,
Alexandra Patel
pastoral things, too. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it depends as well on the question type. So if it's something In factual, quite simple such as when's the deadline for such and such? Where do I go for this, that information is likely to be made available in the digital learning environment. So it's a good idea to look for it first, and then talk to some of the other people on your course, survey found it, maybe the school office or you know, the admin team that supports the course. But you can imagine, it's a lecture on a course of 600 students, and half of them email the deadline for this, they can get a little bit touchy about that. So you know, use that resource carefully. So it's more if you have more complex questions. So if it is a mitigating circumstances situation, or if it's something about the topic area, or finding something in terms of background reading about the subject, then you might approach the tutor. Quite often, lecturers actually do like it when people come up at the end of the session, and ask them a question. Or maybe go out into the corridor with them and ask a question, because usually, it's a lecture theatre for the next class. But you know, most lecturers are really passionate about what they teach, would like to students to be passionate about it, too. But also, I think
Tracy Dix
they like that feedback. You know, as I how that this land for the students today, you don't get much feedback in a lecture because it's a sea of faces. So having that kind of human contact is quite useful for them as well.
Alexandra Patel
Okay, so I think our final area that we want to look at is, how is knowledge treated? You know, what do we mean by knowledge? So I'll start with a question of what do you think a fact is at a level?
Harri
What your textbook says? drivers on the board? Yeah, I feel like it is a little bit. What you need to get written down to get the marks is sort of what the facts will be, you know, even at GCSE. We were told, you know, that can that actually what we're being taught, it wasn't like the full truth, or like, there's no more complicated. There's like a dumbed down version, so we could get the marks. And it's like, you know, what, you're way past and
Emily
yeah, when I first started chemistry level, they were like, okay, so forget half of the rules that we taught you at GCSE, because they worked for GCSE. But they don't work for your level. Yeah, because it's a lot more complicated.
Harri
I feel like we learned a lot ago that sometimes you do just have to adapt a level interested, right? What you've been told yet necessarily matter if you agree with it, or if you've found something else that because if you get the mark at the end, yeah, your classes fine.
Emily
I think that's what I'm most excited about for you uni though, is because when you're writing essays at uni, it's not just like regurgitating things, it's you can actually put your own opinion. And that's what I like, in our religious studies. Lessons, we're having loads of discussions about our opinions and stuff. But then when it comes to the essay, you can't put any of that in.
Harri
Well, yeah. But it's made one final decision, and you can't keep getting things. I
Emily
t's not an opinion. It's just like, whether you agree or disagree.
Yeah, it's not my personal always just like, it doesn't matter for you. Here's something and actually, yeah, I disagree with what you just wrote down. Yeah. Because I think that, yeah,
Harri
I think what you said that I thought was interesting, is that only really like, not as many subjects do evaluate things, like if you're taking a stem subject, from what I've heard, like, you just write down anything. So like having to go into uni, and then write an entire essay and make judgments and evaluate lots and lots is quite a big, there's got to be quite a big jump in the way you're sort of getting.
Alexandra Patel
But you couldn't take it in quite a gradual way. I don't know. Yeah, but you're exactly right. There's a shift from, you know, thinking of knowledge as being you know, the truth, the facts in this textbook, this is just how the world works. It's, it's more complex, not surprised.
Tracy Dix
It's more fluid, isn't it?
Alexandra Patel
It is because you know, over time, research changes, what people accept as being the true flip, how something is changed. But in lots of areas, even in STEM, like it's a cutting edge research, people will be disagreeing. One lab will be saying, Oh, but this is how the universe works. And we'll apples be saying no, it's something different.
Tracy Dix
It can depend on the sample group that they choose, can't it? It can depend on all sorts of the air. So lots of variables, but that's a bit complicated. It might be reassuring for you to know, though that within the STEM subjects they take students through the transition. So in the foundation of first year, it's still very much geared towards understanding the foundations of that subject. So like for example, what is DNA or what is a chromosome? That kind of level before you get to the you know, more evaluative side of things with research articles, and then on to formulating a research project or dissertation in your final year, which is when it gets really exciting, because that's when you get to take things in your own direction, and really explore your own interests over a number of months,
Emily
I didn't realize how much she could like, if you're enjoying something you could read into, like, you could expand your own research on it, you know, I think I thought it was a bit more like this is the module you're going to do sometimes at some point in the future, you get to choose isn't quite realized how
Tracy Dix
I mean, I think it can depend a little bit. That's some of it factors. So it can depend on the discipline, I mean, some disciplines are naturally more kind of open to that sort of thing. So if, for example, if you're studying media studies, then even the resources that you'll be using are going to be a lot more diverse than in STEM subjects, which will be more kind of research papers, based on experiments and stuff like that. Whereas if you're doing media studies, then you can go and look on Twitter, and you can look on Instagram, obviously, for very serious purposes, but also, it can depend on the academic. And sometimes, you know, we were saying earlier on about when you submit your work, make sure it's in a state that's pleasurable for them to read. And you kind of got to think a little bit about their preferences as well. And so if they're the sort of person who's maybe not open to certain perspectives, then you might not want to kind of push that as much with that person won't be able to do it.
Alexandra Patel
For example, Tracy is correct, as ever. So when I did my PhD, Viber, you know, to my solid research, and it was looking at locusts and how their wings developed. And I rediscovered a fact that, you know, it's already been documented, but people have forgotten about it, that partway through their growth, the wings rotate on themselves, they flipped around in position. And in my PhD viva, we have this expert, about Locusta neurobiology come up from Cambridge. And he said, I don't believe that I wasn't, you know, I don't believe your research. And then he said, about another part of it, where I was looking at the maps that you get from neurons in the brain, or in the Locust nervous system. And he was saying, Yes, but you should focus more on this and expand the section purely because that was his research area. So yeah, it was very much about his own preferences there.
Tracy Dix
Thanks for that example, Alex.
Alexandra Patel
But it's true people, you know, have their own belief systems. And if you write something that agrees with that to some extent, or gently argue something else, then it will fit in with that. And they'll think, Oh, yes, I'm happy with that. Whereas if you challenge them too much, and it might be just challenging them over whether you're allowed to put subheadings in or not.
Tracy Dix
It might be something personal, where, you know, one academic believes a certain school of thought, and then another academic doesn't. And if you're kind of agreeing with that other academic who because disagrees, you know, might be a bit of tension between them and your marker. So that could get you into a bit of trouble.
Alexandra Patel
Basically, people have personally.
Tracy Dix
Yeah, exactly, if you will have personalities. And I mean, the thing is, when you go out into the working world, that's something that's going to be continue anyway. So, you know, university is just an exercise in navigating a more diverse range of personalities, I
Alexandra Patel
would only contribute to a small percentage. That is how it could go either way and choose one or the other. Yeah, I hope
Tracy Dix
this might be quite controversial, but I do find sometimes, you know, with researchers, because they're so engrossed in very specific fields of research that they can't, it's almost like you cannot see the wood for the trees. And, and so when you make another suggestion, for example, around research bias, although what if you investigate this, and it's like, no, no, no, no, no, this has been proven. We're here. We're not going there. And I can see that quite a lot for some academics, just because that is the world they're in. Yeah, what kind of level undergraduate first year, second year, third year masters? Oh, no, undergrad, like, no, sorry. I mean, academics and published academics who are teaching, you know, I think with the role that we were in, and, you know, students tend to be quite open to advice, especially if they've sorted out themselves. So I don't tend to have issues on that front with them kind of being a little creative and reading more broadly around the subject.
Alexandra Patel
Most are quite happy to do that. Yeah. Okay. So going back to the part about you know, what is knowledge and you were talking about You know, it's not just kind of like the regurgitating or repeating practice from a level. There's something called Bloom's Taxonomy, which is very sad to know about, it's a way of thinking about different types of thinking skills. And so it's a level you're looking at to recall and understanding, and kind of demonstrating that in an exam or an essay. At university, you're starting to progress to more complex thinking skills, which you know, you're doing already, it's just you're not allowed to in your assignments, which is interesting. So it's things like applying ideas, theories, to different contexts. So case studies, in analyzing data or case studies, evaluating arguments, research, ideas from other people, and then creating your own, and arguing those. And those are the types of things that you'll be starting to do at university, if
Tracy Dix
you guys feel apprehensive when Alex said, creating your own, and it's not as intimidating as it sounds, because it's going to be built upon all those other levels of Bloom's taxonomy. So it'll be based on existing knowledge. And you're just either, you know, integrating two points of view and kind of imposing your own on it, or something like that. So it's a bit more important
Alexandra Patel
data. So it might Yeah, it's actually quite simple in many ways. So it could be linking to things that's creating new knowledge, things that weren't linked previously, it could be taking one idea that I was thought of in this area and applying it to something completely different, which is new, again, it's creating new knowledge. Some of this stuff can be quite easy.
Tracy Dix
Yeah. And like in the arts, for example, one of my friends, her PhD was on productions of Taming of the Shrew. And so if you think about productions, kind of the always new productions of certain plays. And so the reviews would have been done up to a certain point, but not taken into account like the newer productions. So that was met a new knowledge part came in because she was reviewing as yet unreviewed productions of The Taming of the Shrew. So it's not as intimidating as you might think.
Alexandra Patel
Can be fun, but it should be Yeah, should be fun. And you'll be very well supported with at a university. Yeah. And again, that's something that our little podcast we're learning and the courses that we kind of run kind of deal with as well.
Tracy Dix
So if this episode is useful to you do, tell your friends about it, and subscribe to our podcast so that you don't miss future episodes. And, you know, if you find it particularly helpful, please review it as well because that helps us to create new content and know what people like and find really useful.
Alexandra Patel
Thank you very much for joining us. I'm sure our listeners will have found that very insightful experiences a level and good luck to you and your future in year 13. Thank you so much.
Tracy Dix
Thank you for listening to the weird learning podcast with your hosts Dr. Tracy Dix and Dr. Alex Patel. Production team came around and Patricia Marie solace, music my defects machine from Pixabay
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
